Investment Idea: How Tech is Changing the Affordability of Apartments

Multi-family Housing Investment

We hear every day about the increasing cost of housing. But what if there was a way to live in a beautiful, tech-integrated apartment without breaking the bank?

Norhart Real Estate Investing is changing the game by building affordable, high-quality apartments with a unique, vertically-integrated construction process.  

Join us as we chat with CEO, Mike Keating about Norhart's mission to help people live better lives and increase the housing supply, one apartment at a time. We'll explore their innovative building methods, how they're keeping costs down, and how you can be a part of the solution.

Links:

• Norhart Real Estate Investing

• Follow Norhart on Instagram

• Transcript

  Introduction and Welcome

  Hello

  everyone. And welcome to the podcast. I'm Michelle Moses, your host. And today we are going to be talking about affordable housing and some, uh, multiple, what am I trying to say? With, uh, Mike Canning with Norhart and they design and build apartments. And I'm really excited to talk about this because they're doing it very ethically and trying to solve the affordability crisis here in America.

  
  Meet Mike Canning: CEO of Norhart

  So So Mike Hating is the CEO of Norhart. They design, build, and rent apartments, and they are transforming the way this is done by incorporating technologies and techniques that have revolutionized other industries, and this has resulted in improved quality and reduced cost of housing. So welcome Mike.

  Thank you so much for being on. Hey, thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm excited to talk about this because before we even got started, I was [00:01:00] telling Mike that I was checking them out online and there were so many great reviews from people that had lived in your apartments that worked at your company and everyone had great things to say about How much they felt heard and cared for and just, you know, and paid, right.

  And so I'm very excited to hear about your, what you're doing in the space. And then also while he's on you guys, that he's not even going to be talking about that, but there is a way to invest in his company, um, with promissory notes. Um, so that's kind of the overarching theme, I guess. So, um, so why did you start down this road and, you know, how did you get started?

  What's the story behind all of this?

  
  Mike's Journey and Vision

  Yeah, you know, my parents originally started the business. In fact, growing up, I was onsite sweeping, picking up nails and One day, actually, my parents ended up losing everything while we were growing up. In fact, my dad was kidnapped in Peru, crazy side [00:02:00] story. But as we grew up and saw this company grow into something kind of more meaningful, I went off to college.

  And the one thing I knew when I went off to college is that I didn't want anything to do with the family business. And the reason that was, Yeah, it was because I didn't want people to think it was given to me. So I really had to wrestle with my own ego. But what I realized deep down was that I wanted to try to make a meaningful, positive impact in the world.

  And I realized I could take my parents small business and scale it up and grow it to the point of having that kind of impact. of impact. So I jumped in the first there. Well, there's a lot to be said where you have the basis, you know, you have your foundation and then you're able to jump off from that.

  Yeah, exactly. So my Dan and I, we, uh, were like two peas in a pod in the first few years. We actually doubled the size of the company together. And then [00:03:00] one day, unexpectedly, He passed away. So overnight, I became the CEO of the organization and I, well, I struggled. But the thing that I really learned through that experience was that, you know, my dad died relatively young and that we only live about 4, 000 weeks here on earth.

  And I often ask myself the question now, how do I want to spend the minutes I have here on earth? And for me, the answer to that is that I want to make some kind of meaningful, positive impact. And I think we can do that by by solving housing affordability. And were you guys doing this already before your dad passed away?

  Or did this become your goal after your dad passed away? It, it was an evolution, right? It's not, I always knew I wanted to make that bigger impact, but how, I didn't quite know. But after my dad passed away, [00:04:00] really putting the puzzle pieces together. And there's some stories and things we ran into along the way that kind of illuminated this path.

  
  Innovative Construction Techniques

  But what we started doing is driving down the cost of construction. And once we started to see that happen, we realized that if we could scale up this production model, we could be providing so many units to a given market that we can drive down those rents for everyone naturally in those spaces. And once those dots started to connect together, you know, We realized we could have that kind of impact.

  Okay, well, and I think it's important that if you were to see your apartments online, they are actually very beautiful. And I think when people think of, you know, we were cutting costs and we were, then you think, Oh, we're just living in a box of, uh, you know, what are the shipping containers or something?

  And yours are the opposite of this. I mean, really, they are really, really beautiful and nice. And so how did you, can you kind of give us a quick story of how you went about doing this and what are kind of the technologies that you do employ to [00:05:00] do this? Absolutely. And I'll first comment to what you just said.

  We actually have a partnership with Toyota and they invented the world of lean and improving systems and processes to drive down costs and their executives flat on a regular basis. And one thing they remind me of quite regularly is a lot of people see it as either cost. or quality. The reality is if you look at it from the right perspective and you take the right steps, you can actually drive both an improvement in quality simultaneously with a reduction in cost.

  Now we look at it from a bigger perspective to answer your question. Over the past 60 years, industries like manufacturing have improved labor productivity by 760%. During that same time period, construction has done virtually nothing at just 10 percent increase. Improvement. [00:06:00] See, this is unreasonable. This, this needs to be changed.

  And so we started asking ourselves the question, what things can we learn from other industries and apply those technologies into our space? One of the first things, if you look at manufacturing, is it's one plant, right? You don't have a bunch of different companies installing different components. In the world of construction, it's a bunch of different companies coming together to work on a building.

  If construction were to produce cars, you'd have a different company installing the windshield, a different company installing the wheel, and a different company installing the door. And of course, the door company, they would call you up one day and say, Hey, I am so sorry. I got delayed on another project and I can't get out there for two weeks.

  Your line would be shut down. See the world of manufacturing looks at us and says, you are crazy. And we look back at them and say, this is the way it's always been done. So we brought all that work [00:07:00] under one roof. Once we did that, we could start applying.

  
  Technological Advancements in Construction

  Technology and just techniques that others in this industry don't apply in this first one is going to sound revolutionary.

  It's the assembly line. Okay. I know it's not that crazy, but it has such a big impact. But how in the world could you take a building and drive it down a line? Well, you can't. But here's the insight, you can take the people and move them through the building. So right now our teams shift through the building by one unit every five hours.

  Because if you look at the end of our building, every five hours we have a brand new apartment unit completed. And that one technique, just that one drives, improves the speed at which we can build buildings. It takes a 15 month project and drives it down to something like nine months. So instead of like, because before it was the [00:08:00] drywallers would all come in and then they would come in and put in the doors or whatever it was.

  And so what you're saying is they go all go in kind of together. I mean, obviously there's certain things that probably have to be done and then they're finishing the apartment. In those hours that they're there, they are sequential. So what it would typically be is the drywallers would come and say, I want an entire floor, right?

  Get out of my way. I don't want anything in my way. Just want to do this entire floor or maybe a couple of floors. And what would happen is so much of the building is not being worked on. Instead for us, the drywallers are in one unit. The painters are in the next unit. The there's maybe a dry stage in the next unit.

  And the unit after that is the, um, the, the, the trim and the door and that sort of thing, because it's very condensed. It's like a train that flows through the building. Oh, that's very cool. Okay. And then were you having to, I guess, revolutionize the product that you were using the inside of the apartments [00:09:00] too?

  Yes, yes, yes. So we ended up bringing architects and engineers. In house as well. We have a whole team that designs our buildings literally from the ground up. They will do dissertation level work on metal joists. They've actually gone toe to toe with the federal government in the codebook and actually proven out where different calculations are wrong.

  What's interesting in the world of construction, typically, engineers and architects are going to deliver The fastest plan that can do that meets code, because that's what they're incentivized, right? They have a fixed price bid. They don't want to spend an extra minute on their project. But if you bring your team in house, they can start thinking about the project in much deeper ways to improve how it's constructed for one.

  But also reducing the cost of the materials involved as well. And so that is a key component to what we do. Because you're very vertically integrated [00:10:00] then. I mean, you are doing these from design all the way to finish and to renting them out, correct? I mean, you're you got it all covered. Exactly. We even have precast concrete.

  It's a facility that builds beams and columns, giant beams out of concrete. We have another plant that builds wall panels. And so, yeah, you bring it and we have sourcing and supply chain. We have people in China and Mexico delivering supply chain in house. And then we have a like kidding. So we actually deliver all the materials to one location and then it gets kitted down to individual.

  Units so that every five hours you have just as supply as you need for your unit. Wow. So yeah, you bring that all under one roof and you can make some big impact. Well, and talk about the technology that you're having to employ to coordinate all of this. That just is mind blowing to me. I would love to do a tour

  I love all those. I love all those logistics like that.

  
  Expanding and Scaling Operations

  And so are you, so you're basically, you are build, are you building in multiple states or you're just, you're building in one state with hopes to go to multiple [00:11:00] states. You know, we are in one state right now, Minnesota, although some of our manufacturing is in Wisconsin.

  We're looking to expand into Texas, but the key thing again is focusing on the production, right? So there's this engine, this almost like a manufacturing plant that builds apartment buildings. And when we do that, the goal is to do it at scale. And so you want to stay concentrated in one location until you scale up and then expand to your next location and scale that up.

  Okay. And are, how are you identifying the locations where you're building the apartments? Okay. Great. Thanks. So with, I guess I'll look nationwide first, we're looking to moving to Texas next. And the reason for that again is mostly focused on production. There are a very large population all within about a three hour driving distance of each other.

  And Uh, it's a good demographics, growing state, uh, rising rents. It also has closer proximity to Mexico. We're looking to move some of our manufacturing into Mexico and then drive that [00:12:00] across the border. So that's, that's why we're looking at Texas. When you're looking with in estate, we're looking for locations that have a good commercial area.

  How's the transportation? Is there, uh, like public transportation nearby? Um, is it a growing neighborhood? Like, is there a lot of, uh, new facilities, new buildings and things in that location? Uh, what are the, like, what's the supply and demand factors? Are there lots of new buildings going up in that area?

  So those are the sorts of things we look at. Okay. And are you buying existing buildings or land or both? We do not buy existing buildings. It is just land. If there's a house on the land, we'll buy that and tear down the house. Okay. But it's just land. Okay. Uh, but in, but most of the time it is, you're not having to tear things down and reconfigure the block or anything like that.

  Most of the time we do tear. Some buildings down as we go along, but most of the time it's vacant land. [00:13:00] And so just be, is it because you have it vertically integrated and that you have, uh, put these technology, I guess you put more technology into real estate. And then you're passing that on to make it affordable rent.

  Is that kind of the story that I'm hearing? Great question. I'll, I'll reframe it a little bit differently. What people will do is go on our website and they say, Mike, You talk about solving housing affordability, but your rents are about the same cost as everyone else in your market. What the heck? The answer is quite simple.

  We're trying to solve housing affordability nationwide. We're going to do that effectively. We first have to drive down construction costs. So we're taking the profits that we're earning in the buildings that build up the, production capability to produce those buildings to drive down those costs. As we build that out, our [00:14:00] goal over the next decade is to reach 192, 000 units under management with a 60, 000 unit per year pace.

  At that level, We're producing so many units for a given marketplace that we're now having an impact on that supply, therefore reducing the price, basic supply and demand. But here's the magic. So if we were to do it the way you described, we would solve housing affordability. For the thousands of residents that we have, but it wouldn't solve it for the market.

  Do we in a way that we increase supply, we're now reducing the cost of housing, not just for our own residents. We're solving it for everyone in the market that we're building in. Because that's our dream. You're really trying to just increase supply so that. The price goes down, essentially. All right. And then, and so are there other technologies that you, that I missed?

  Cause I know I skipped kind of to the building. Are there other technologies that [00:15:00] you're employing to help do this? Yes. You know, if I had to give the answer of what's the best way to reduce costs, it's related to people, but everyone likes the technology. So that's what I'll talk about. I'm kind of interested in the, in the people too, because I was reading how you have unlimited PTO.

  So that was one of my questions, if we could get to it. So, but go ahead, the technology. So, uh, one of the first technologies is. The architecture and engineering team, we're getting them to think about not just designing individual buildings, but it's building the system that designs those buildings. So imagine providing a computer aided site plan, kind of the lay of the land of a particular lot.

  Then, the computer calculates out What is the most efficient building design, heights, the size of the parking garage, the size of the units, the shape of the building, the parking overall, what's the most efficient design, plops that on there, [00:16:00] and then fills out the entire design of that building, and then after producing all of that, can create all the schedules, all the sourcing and supply chain, everything that goes in to producing that building.

  All automatically. And so we're, we're building out some of those technologies. We're using same AI that there's some really cool AI that's out there as well. So that's on the design side, the onsite side. So part of it is moving some of the work off offsite into plants. Once you do that, we have automated equipment that can Build components in the building.

  For example, for our steel wall panels, we put in steel coils in one end, and this machine will fold, bend, shape, cut, punch the metal to be exactly what it's needed for the walls being built. And so every stud is individually created. there is no waste. There is no time, energy and cutting or anything. It's all pre produced for us.

  Uh, and that's all programmed in right from our set of [00:17:00] plans. What I know is, oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing is just the on site technologies. So the technologies that we do not have in place today, but we're looking seriously at, there's a company that has produced AI robots that can paint units.

  So imagine a robot that just paints the entire unit for you. So there's that technology. There's technology of um, autonomous excavation equipment. So instead of driving a bulldozer on site to level the ground where you need it, you actually have the bulldozer, the backhoe, everything is running on site and you're actually controlling it right from the iPad.

  It's all automated, knowing exactly the right height, the depth, the shape of that landscape that it's trying to create. So those are the kinds of techniques or technologies we're looking at today. Wow. That is really, really cool to see where it's going. And I can't believe that you're saying all of this because, um, my husband actually works for a company, um, that they do the components of [00:18:00] buildings.

  And so they'll put the walls and what I talk about is that's what they do is they build the walls and then they put them together like a puzzle piece. Or there is another area where they have these bathrooms and they're literally like in a box and then they'll just like drop off the bathroom. So I can't believe where it's going.

  And it makes total sense so that you have, you know, less waste and people are just putting things together and you're not having to rely on, um, people messing up because the problem is having the skills, you know, it takes years and years and years to do those skills. And now those skills can be used for something else.

  So I think it's just really cool where construction is going nowadays. Exactly. There's some really fun technologies like 3D printed homes, the full volumetric construction. There's the pod kind of construction that you talked about as well. The interesting challenge is that a lot of it is flashy and exciting and you get to see it on the newspapers.

  But when you get right down to it, a number of those [00:19:00] technologies actually don't reduce cost. And so the key issue, the key thing that we're trying to solve for is bring the right set of technologies together that meaningfully reduce the cost of construction. Yeah. Well, yeah, because you're probably just replacing people with computer costs or software costs or research or, you know, that kind of thing.

  Or like full volumetric construction where they're producing apartment units in a factory and then just dropping in place like Lego pieces on site. Super cool technology, but in some cases it helps reduce costs. The majority right now, it actually doesn't, is no less expensive than building on site. And so we're actually working.

  Kind of in a hybrid model right now, where we've got like tents on site where we'll actually componentize pieces of the building, but it's built right on site in like a giant tent factory. And then there's no transportation costs, right? When you're transporting a giant apartment unit, you're moving a lot of air.

  But if you can build that in a factory on site and then [00:20:00] just crane it up into place, that's another way to reduce costs. Okay. Are you trying to build your apartments close together? I like, you know, like. On blocks that are close together. Would that save costs too? Or does it matter whether it's, you know, a mile away or five miles away?

  It does save costs because there's substantial mobilization, like setting up cranes and stuff like that. There's a practicality to it though, which is that you often find good sites that are right next to each other. So we're all probably not zoned for it either. Yeah. So we're all within the Twin Cities market.

  So our staff doesn't have a very far distance to drive, but it's, it's almost never right next to each other. Okay. And so would you say that you feel like this is what, uh, most real estate builders and developers are getting wrong now is that you feel like they need to be employing more of this technology and what you were saying with the teams that we're going through.

  Yeah, [00:21:00] I probably want to be careful with my words and not saying that they're necessarily wrong. Well, I, yeah, I don't want to say that. I'm yeah, not that I don't want to criticize them. I'm just saying like where you could go with the, with the industry. Yeah, absolutely. The reality is, This is, there's a certain way that it's always been done and it's interesting when we meet with investors and bankers and just industry professionals.

  Everyone's a little skeptical. They're like, are you sure you're doing this? Like, this is so different. Why aren't you fitting the mold? Like, why do you have all this in house? And, Cause we have a proven track record of it actually reducing cost. This we believe is the future. Yeah. When I was looking at your company, I mean, you have a lot of different LLCs for all your different subsidiaries so that you can be vertically integrated.

  Exactly. Yeah. It's kind of, that's, that's incredible that you went that deep and we have a different companies for all the different components of our business. And part of the reason we had to do that is because people looked at us and said, dude, you're so different. So we said, okay, wait, wait, [00:22:00] what if we created a plumbing company?

  What if we created a. Uh, uh, precast company and they were separate entities. And then we hired the plumbing company to come work for us in this project. Oh, I guess we'd be okay with that. We don't, we're you're more fitting the normal mold. Okay. We'll, we'll do that to fit the mold. Yeah. Yeah. I would think, cause it's hard to disrupt because people first look at you.

  like you're kind of nuts or whatever. Cause I remember when I went out on my own and I started my own, what's called RIA in this financial world. And they were like, what are you doing? You can't do that. You know, I mean, I got told that a million times. So, and then I think once you start to do it, then they're like, Oh, it becomes the norm.

  And so what you're, you're doing is, you know, Hopefully going to start to become the norm, right? I mean, because we really do have an affordable housing shortage in the United States. And I think it's really commendable what you're trying to do. And, um, can we talk a little bit about your employees and how [00:23:00] happy they are?

  Just because that's what I read online by so many of them. Uh, what are some of the things that they love about working for your company?

  They're, they're, they're at the core of it. I really believe that you've got to build up an amazing team. And to build that up, you've got to provide just amazing. You know, we talk about top pay, top benefits, but it's much more than that. It's building the right kind of culture where they actually want to work.

  The one of the most, probably the most important lesson I've ever learned in life is to hire the very Best people. And when I say the best, I truly mean the best. We will fly people in from other States to come work during the week and fly them home in the weekend. One of our employees in 2007, Steve Jobs announces the brand new iPhone.

  Steve Jobs walks off stage and our employee walks [00:24:00] on that same stage following Steve Jobs announcement. And see, when you bring people like that together, they change things. they unlock doors for you that you didn't know could be unlocked. They invent the future. But see, the reason I was so hesitant about that is I was afraid that that was expensive.

  Many business leaders look at me and say, dude, like that sounds really expensive, right? And the truth is, it is. If you're going to hire the best people, you need to pay them top of market. You have to give them great benefits. You have to support them incredibly well. But here's the thing that most business leaders fail to understand.

  The best people outperform the average by two to four to 10 times as much. And so instead of looking at a cost per unit produced, look at it on a car and what they're actually doing. And you'll notice that the best people are actually you're least [00:25:00] expensive. So for those that feel they can't afford to hire the best, my response is simply, you can't afford not to.

  Now, once you bring in a team of that caliber, there's so much that we do, which I can get into to kind of support that culture and create that right environment. But it starts fundamentally with bringing the right people into that company. Well, and it comes from you and your vision too. And then everybody is going to follow that because they know that it's important.

  Which I think is wonderful. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's wonderful. I love it.

  
  Investing in Norhart

  Uh, and I do want to touch a little bit on, um, the way to invest in this. Cause I do have a couple of questions about that. Uh, actually before we get started on that, there was one question that you had in your email about one thing that every real estate expert gets wrong.

  What was, what was your answer to that? Cause that was something that we were, yeah. emailing about. Yeah. You know, [00:26:00] I probably have different answers to this at different times, but my, my biggest answer today, and this is probably going to run, rub some people the wrong way, but a lot of people in the real estate market kind of have the mindset of fundamentally of, I want to make a good amount of income.

  We'll set it aside and go relax and live on a beach someday. And this market is ripe for that kind of opportunity. You can make a lot of money in real estate, but what I think a lot of people get wrong is that we should be having, instead of a perspective of trying to serve ourselves, we should be looking at how can we change this market to serve the community, to serve the wider world.

  And so if we reorient ourselves to doing that and serving that and driving down those costs and actually creating housing that's truly affordable, then we'll not only have a more meaningful, lifelong [00:27:00] impact that's more fulfilling, but we're also going to do well financially, right? So instead of focusing on the financials.

  Yeah. Focus on the impact. Well, I agree. And I think that everybody can win. And I see some things that come across my desk, that it's very much, you know, like, let me teach you how to invest in multifamily. Let's take that for example, you know, and I've already purchased, you know, four different buildings and, you know, I've built in the price of the project manager and the, this and the, that, and, um, you know, And it makes my stomach turn, honestly, because if everybody was buying multifamily, then everybody's going to be a renter.

  And when everybody's a renter, then nobody gets rich except for the people that own the buildings. And so, I'm not saying that there isn't a need for that, but not everybody can do it, you know, in that way. And some of these sales things that I see, I absolutely agree with you that I think it's just all, um, numbers based and I think this is, you'll see [00:28:00] why, you know, Zillow went under with what they were doing with, um, trying to flip houses is that they just thought, Oh, we can just go in there and get this done.

  And there's just so. Much more to real estate than just this, you know, this factory of we're just going to buy this and redo it. There's the people involved, there's the people that need to redo the houses, and then there's the people that you're selling to, too. And so I completely agree with you that I think that there's a way to balance it of where you can make money, but you just don't need to be completely egregious about it.

  And I think sometimes, yeah, I just think some of these selling systems, it's a little too egregious. So, okay. Now we really are going to switch to how to invest in your company. Uh, so, uh, Norhart is sells, you can invest in the company and they do promissory notes and correct me if I'm wrong on any of this and they, you can pick a term.

  So I want to equate it to like a CD or something like [00:29:00] that, where it, but it's not with a bank, you guys, this is with a company that you're investing in. And you can go from anywhere from six months to five years. And when you pick your, your time, then obviously then it goes up. So right now, as we're speaking, you know, five years is 10 percent and six months is 7.

  6%, uh, and can, people can just invest online. Is that how it works, Mike? That's right. One thing I want to just be cautious, be very clear up front is we're not a bank. We're not FDIC insured. Uh, we do guarantee that those rates as a company has no hard to invest, uh, but there's no government guarantee. So just be mindful of that.

  But yeah, you can go. They do have the first, they are the first tier though, so yeah, so this debt is not what's called subordinate debt. It was more of the, it is the first tier. So once, um, I would say [00:30:00] mortgages were paid off, right? Then these would be paid off. Am I correct in saying that? Yes. Yes. So, uh, Norhard invest is basically a fund that, uh, you can get promissory notes.

  Like it's like a CD. You get that money. back after a term. We also put our own money into KnowHow to Invest. If there ever is a loss at KnowHow to Invest, we lose all of our money, all of the invested capital first before investors are touched. That's layer one protection. The second layer of protection is KnowHow to Invest brings all those funds together and then invests into our apartment buildings.

  So there's physical, tangible real estate that's backing up these investments. Now, as you mentioned, the bank has the first position on those apartment buildings. So if we had a huge downturn in the market, then the bank could get hit. It's very unlikely. The bank's in a very, uh, safe position. The [00:31:00] second position is Norhart Invest, called Preferred Equity.

  And then the last position, again, is us. It's our invested capital. So, we would have to lose everything on the property, all of our invested money. And then we had to lose everything in order to invest before investors are touched. So I'm incredibly incentivized to make sure that I pay back you in full, not only an investment, but every dollar of interest that I owe you.

  Right. And I was, that was one of my questions is how much do you invest yourself? Is there a certain percentage or does it vary on time? Uh, it varies on time and company and stuff. Uh, within Norhardt Invest, it maybe is around 20 percent right now. Uh, and then on each property, it's about 10 to 20 percent as well as the equity layer.

  Okay. And I think it's important to point out that you could invest for, you know, two years, but Norhardt does have the option to pay these off early. Um, [00:32:00] Uh, if they needed to, or if it was in the best interest of the company. So it's not, you know, this is not a C, a CD like a bank, but I'm just equating it to that to, so that you can, um, realize how you would make the money is like a CD, but you were investing in a company, but they do have the option to pay you off at any time.

  Uh, and my other question for you was too, was do you, the, so the money that is left, you can invest it in, uh, The way that you wanted, but it didn't say, and I was wondering if you only invest in bonds or what you would invest the money when you're not using it. Yeah. So we don't, we don't invest in stocks or anything like that.

  It's just know how to invest apartment buildings. And then it, uh, is kind of like we put the cash in the CDs and things of that nature. Um, or government bonds, short term government bonds for the liquidity accounts that we have to hold for her to invest. We can be off investors as their notes come due.

  Right. Okay. And, uh, in [00:33:00] these types of investments, people can request their money back after a year, correct? Uh, you can request your money back at the end of the term, so you can't take your money out early again, primarily because they're in hard real estate and we've got a time sales buildings and things like that with investor returns.

  Um, so you can't take it out during the term, but you could take it out once the term ends. Okay. Or it will automatically roll over or it can automatically roll over. Uh, no, it does not automatically roll at the end of the term. You can choose to roll it over if you want. Oh, that's what it will not automatically.

  That's what I said. Okay. All right. Well, um, obviously if you have more questions, you guys, um, we'll have the website in the show notes. Along with how to invest, if that's something that you were interested in doing. But again, it's not with a bank. It's not guaranteed. There's no FDIC insurance, anything like that.

  You are investing in a company, but I really, I mean, that's not why we're here to talk. I [00:34:00] am interested in what you're trying to do for affordable housing, and I think that we need to highlight. More companies that are really trying to help people. And again, I just think that this whole thing of where we can all win together.

  It needs to be the future and that we really can all win together. We can all promote each other. We can all make money at the same time and we can all be friendly. It doesn't need to be this huge competitive, uh, world that we need to live in. So I just really commend you on what you're doing. And again, the reviews online from your employees and people that live in your apartment buildings are just stellar.

  And I went to multiple websites and, um, there was nothing but positive things on there. Hmm. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Yeah.

  
  Conclusion and Final Thoughts

  Well, thank you for being on. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me about this so that I could learn about your investment and learn about your company.

  And [00:35:00] I can't wait to see where you go with this. Yeah. so much. This has been a blast. Yeah. So thank you everybody. As I said, everything will be in the show notes and let me know if you have any questions. Thank you so much for listening, everybody. I really appreciate you tuning in and, um, learning some things.

  I really, I hope that this has inspired your financial life in some small way and share with your friends if you feel compelled. Thank you so much.

Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and should not be construed as professional financial advice. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor or professional before making any financial decisions. The hosts and guests of this podcast are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information presented.