Maximizing Travel Rewards: Insider Tips from Julian Kheel of Points Path
Ever dreamed of traveling the world for less?
This week, I chat with Julian Kheel, founder of Points Path and travel expert, about how to unlock the power of airline miles and credit card points. Julian explains the often-confusing world of travel rewards, sharing his 15+ years of experience and turning the complex system into an exciting game.
Learn how to leverage credit card perks, maximize sign-up bonuses, and strategically use flexible cards to earn and redeem rewards for travel deals. Julian also highlights his game-changing Points Path browser extension, designed to make deciding between cash and points a breeze.
Key Takeaways:
Travel Rewards: Julian breaks down the complexities of airline miles and credit card points, making them accessible and understandable for everyone.
Maximizing Credit Card Points: Learn the secrets to earning the most points possible through strategic spending and bonus categories.
The Power of Sign-Up Bonuses: Discover how to leverage lucrative sign-up bonuses to quickly accumulate a wealth of points.
Strategic Use of Flexible Cards: Understand the benefits of flexible rewards programs and how to use them to your advantage.
Cash vs. Points: Julian introduces the Points Path browser extension, a powerful tool that simplifies the decision-making process when choosing between paying with cash or points.
Travel the World for Less: This episode has tips and strategies to help you travel more and spend less.
Take Control of Your Financial Future: Learn how travel rewards can be a powerful tool in your overall financial strategy.
Links:
Contact Julian or download the Points Path Browser Extension - https://pointspath.com/
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Introduction to the Unconventional Investor Podcast
Michelle Moses: Welcome to the Unconventional Investor Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Moses, certified financial planner, licensed realtor, and founder of ME Financial. If you're an accredited investor feeling overwhelmed by managing your portfolio and looking for alternative investment strategies that go beyond the traditional stock market, you're in the right place.
Let's head into today's episode so you can start taking control of your financial future. Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast.
Meet Julian Kheel: Travel Expert and Points Guru
Michelle Moses: Today we are going to be talking about airline and credit card points with Julian Keel. And Julian Keel is a seasoned travel expert and the founder of Points Path, a travel tool dedicated to simplifying the world of airline miles and travel rewards.
With over 15 years of experience navigating the landscape of points, miles, and loyalty programs, Julian has built a reputation as a go-to resource for travelers looking to maximize their rewards and ma minimize their travel costs. Julian spent several years as a senior editor at The Points Guy where he provided advice on earning [00:01:00] and redeeming miles, reviewed travel credit cards, and offered analysis of loyalty programs.
Welcome to the show, Julian. Hi, Michelle. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, I am very excited to do this.
The World of Credit Card Points and Airline Miles
Michelle Moses: I'm, I am, I'm glad that we connected because I have started to do this in my life over the last couple of years, and I cannot even tell you the world that has opened up. It is just wild to me how, like complicated, but then it's not complicated once you get to know it, but, like it's just, it's a huge world, this whole points thing.
Julian Kheel: It really is. And a lot of people, when they haven't done it, do te take a look at it and say, oh my gosh, there's a lot going on here. And there is. But if you think of it as almost a little bit of a game where you know you're seeing like how much value can you get out of your credit card?
Then it really becomes. Really a lot of fun, frankly. And of course the beauty of it is you get free travel and you can go places that you don't have to pay any cash or very minimal cash for.
Michelle Moses: Yeah, it has opened up a whole [00:02:00] wide world of things. 'cause I was thinking, gosh, we spend a lot of money like on our credit cards and so why don't we, and so I just started to research it myself and there, there's obviously like lots of websites and things out there of ways to learn it and, but the people that I knew, it was like. Their hobby. It was a part-time job for them, and I'm like I don't know that I want to do that.
But then now that I've been doing it, I can see how you can just pay attention to it for a little bit and then not, you know what I mean? It's, it doesn't need to be a full-time hobby like some of these other people are doing it.
Julian Kheel: It doesn't, it really it depends on how whatever you put into it is you know what you'll get out of it.
The more you put into it, the more you can get out of it. But that doesn't mean you have to spend hours and hours of your life digging into it. The other beauty is that there are now more tools than ever to help you cut down the amount of time that you need to spend taking care of all these things.
And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that as we go.
Michelle Moses: Yeah. And to keep track of like your credit cards. Like which ones and all that. So let's get started of how you get started. Really what we're talking about here is credit card points [00:03:00] to start off with. 'cause you're, most people are not gonna get the amount of points that they need just from flying unless you're doing that professionally.
Okay.
Julian Kheel: That is correct. In fact, we are at the point now where the majority of all airline miles that are issued in the world are not earned from travel. They are, in fact, especially in the United States, earned from credit card spend, and it is somewhere around 60 to 65%. Now that don't come from flying on an airplane, you're not gonna get a huge amount of miles.
From actually flying, especially now, 'cause all of the airlines, or almost all of them, have switched their systems over where you no longer get rewarded for the distance you fly. You now get rewarded for how much you spend. And most people want the cheapest tickets they can get. Oh, I didn't realize that.
Really? That's right. Yeah. Okay. Only Alaska in the US is still rewarding miles based on how far you actually travel. Everyone else did some variation of what you spent on your ticket. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, credit cards are definitely the way to go when you see [00:04:00] people on Instagram or whatever flying around the world and first class or whatever, that's all about credit cards and especially the signup bonuses.
And how that has become a very lucrative part of earning miles. To quickly so that you can take those trips and not have to spend years collecting mock.
Michelle Moses: And I think that's where, and so that's what was the most surprising to me was that it was the signup bonuses, right? But that those change.
So some people are like I was shown that I got a hundred thousand and I was shown that I got 70,000. And it really depends on like the algorithm, I guess, or what offer you get from the different credit cards. Oh boy. It's all
Julian Kheel: absolutely it. It is all over the place. It can be geo-targeted. Some companies like Amex will target based on your location, based on what they know about you, and the cookies on your machine.
It really, yeah, you can absolutely see a totally different offer than someone else. And in fact amex on some of their application pages specifically says, if you navigate away from this offer, you may not see it again. Yeah. [00:05:00] So you, yeah. So it's important to know, and this is where you do wanna do a little research, when do you see an offer for a bonus for a signup bonus on a card, to take a moment and Google and say what's the best bonus available on this card both right now?
And what has been the bonus? Recently because these bonuses also change constantly and there might have been a higher bonus a month or two ago, in which case there's probably gonna be a higher bonus again a month or two now. And so it might be
Michelle Moses: better to wait or something like that. That's correct. Okay.
Exactly.
Julian Kheel: Or it might be the highest bonus that they've seen recently, in which case, that's the time to strike.
Michelle Moses: Okay.
Choosing the Right Credit Cards for Your Needs
Michelle Moses: And what would you recommend of the best way for someone to get started if they know nothing and they just are like, I've just always had my Costco credit card, yep. I, the
Julian Kheel: first thing I would say, and I'm just giving this disclaimer, I think your audience probably already knows this of course, is that if you are going to get, earn credit card rewards, you gotta pay your bill in full on time every month.
Absolutely, yes. The mo the moment you pay a dime of interest, you've lost the game. Yeah. Don't, yeah. If you guys, if
Michelle Moses: anybody, yeah. If you're listening to this and you have a problem [00:06:00] with debt, this is not for you. This is for, you spend, you track your sa you, you track what you spend, and you pay off your credit card every single month, and then you're just accumulating the points.
Julian Kheel: That's exactly right. The, I always say you are not spending any more than you would otherwise. You are simply replacing cash or your debit card with a credit card. Exactly. And you're spending the same amount. Yes. So just wanted to get that out of the way so everybody's on the same page. Yeah, totally agree.
But yeah, and yeah, I think again, most of the members of your audience are probably pretty disciplined and able to do that. So if you are then starting out and say, okay, like you said, I've had my Costco card and that's not unusual. Somebody, you get a Costco card and you stick it in your wallet and it's there for 10 years or whatever it might be.
And that is usually the first mistake is you do wanna look at your credit card at least once every three years. I say, because there's probably a better option on the market at that point because products are evolving so quickly and they're constantly coming up with new things. So that's the first thing.
If you had your credit card for more than three years you should look at what else is out there. The next question [00:07:00] then, if you're saying Okay. Do I wanna earn travel rewards? Maybe cash back is right for you if you're not gonna travel that much. Or if you don't want put in any effort into, figuring out how to maximize your points.
There's some really great cashback cards out there. The basic cashback card earns 2% on everything and has no annual fee. And there's several banks that issue, that Citibank and things like that. Could be very simple, just go with a cash back card. In which case that's the way that I need way, the way
Michelle Moses: that I transitioned from my Costco card, and this was quite a few years ago, was I realized that I hated paying for hotels.
And so I went and I searched out the Hilton and the Marriott cards. Yeah. And said, okay, we're gonna spend, use this one for this and used this one for this. And it ended up, we got lots of free nights. And we got, all kinds of points and we could stay for free. Which was really nice.
But then once I started to really look into the points, I was like, oh, wait a minute. Now I have all of these hotel points, compiled right? And I have enough going on here. I'm like, I need to then expand into airline points, which I know this is [00:08:00] not the way I think that normal people do it.
I'm just kind of sharing that for, if people are looking for an easy way to kind of transition into it. That, just doing, if you hate paying for rental cars, maybe getting a Hertz rental car, credit card might be it, and then you can start to kind of learn the game.
Julian Kheel: Yeah, Michelle, the way that you got into it is not uncommon.
People often, say I wanna start finding a way for hotels to be free or for my flights to be free, or I wanna take a big trip and so I wanna start. Accumulating travel rewards. The key to this is of course, that you can get more value from travel points than you can from cash back if you work at it.
So that's where why travel rewards are worth it if you are willing to put in a little time for it. And then the question is, so what do you start with? And the answer is generally, I say start with a flexible. Card start with a car that earns flexible points and miles like a Chase, ultimate Rewards and Amex membership rewards, something like that is a good place to start.
Michelle Moses: Okay. And that way that you can transfer the, all of those points [00:09:00] to different airlines, to different, car rental cars, you can transfer 'em basically anywhere, right? That's right. You can transform not quite everywhere.
Julian Kheel: And each bank has its own set of partners, but you can also use those points and redeem them directly for any airline, any hotel, any car rental through the bank's travel portal.
You won't get as quite as much value that way, but you can basically get any travel that you want.
Michelle Moses: Okay. And there are websites out there where you can put in your stuff and then it'll tell you, Hey, you should use this one. And it. And then they have the offers of right now and then obviously that's how they make their money is if you apply through those different websites.
Exactly. Okay. So let's pretend that you get started, right? And so you've got this one credit card and you are spending on it, and you're about to get the signup bonus. Then what do you recommend? Is it like they, they automatically get another one? Because I, that's. My whole thing was the shift, the mindset shift of I'm not gonna have this credit card for three years.
I'm like literally getting the signup bonus, and then I'm trying to [00:10:00] switch.
Julian Kheel: Yes. So right, you can, as we said before, you can ramp this up as much as you want or do it wherever you're comfortable. But yes, it does take a little bit of a mindset switch and you gotta maybe push yourself a little out of your comfort zone.
'cause most people are used to just having one credit card and that's the card they have and they haven't for years and years, but. More advanced credit card users have multiple cards and they rotate them constantly and they're constantly opening and closing cards. I just as an example have 25 open credit.
Cards. Now I don't have 25 open credit cards sitting in my wallet. I have about three cards sitting in my wallet and maybe four, and the rest of them are in my sock drawer. Okay. And don't get used. I got them for the bonus, maybe for the perks, depending on whether, what kind of card it is, and then they just sit in that drawer and the only time they come out is when that annual fee is due.
At which point I have to say, okay, am I getting enough value from this card to continue to pay this fee? Or should I cancel it or convert it [00:11:00] to a no annual fee card and then go on to something else?
Michelle Moses: Okay. And there are websites out there too that will you put in all your credit card information and it will remind you, Hey, your annual fee is coming up right?
And then you need to analyze whether it's worth it or not.
Julian Kheel: Yep. One of, one of the sites that I that's a friend of mine I have no financial, interest in it, but just to mention it travel Freely is a site that, that was the, yeah. That was the one
Michelle Moses: that I started out with. And then you put in all your credit cards and then they would recommend what your first one was?
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah, it's a terrific site. Yeah. Yeah. A friend run
Julian Kheel: by a friend of mine, Zach Hood, and it's a really great way to do it.
Michelle Moses: Okay. All right. Wonderful. And then, so then kind of the next step is you sign up for the cards. You have all these cards you're keeping track of, but then you ha so you obviously, they're not gonna give you unlimited cards.
And so it the thing that I also found interesting. So let's pretend you keep these cards. And you don't have the signup bonus, is it worth it to keep it? What are ways that you can then maximize your points if you aren't having the signup bonus? And it's not, it's not a brand new card, [00:12:00] in other words.
So yeah, so first, like, how do you keep the points going without just. Doing your normal spend. So they're not gonna give you unlimited
Julian Kheel: cards at one time, but they will give you unlimited cards over time. Okay? So what I mean by that is that you're right, you can't have a hundred open credit cards.
At some point a bank will say. We've issued you as much credit as we're willing to give you, given your income and your credit history and whatever it might be. However, that is the point. Once you hit that limit that you start closing open cards to open up some of that credit. And then be able to get new cards.
Now with that said, again, you can ramp it up as much or as little as you want. There is a maximum. You're not gonna get. 20 cards a year. Most people aren't. But yes you certainly can. I rotate through probably half a dozen cards every single year. New cards, closing old cards.
So it can be done. And I have, sometimes you'll hit an issuer that says, you know what, we're not gonna give you a new card right now, but you've had a lot in which case, you just gotta give it a little time, give it in, six months, a year, and then go back to, and then you go back
Michelle Moses: to that
Julian Kheel: one.
Okay. And in the [00:13:00] meantime go to other banks and get other cards.
Michelle Moses: Okay. And then do you use certain cards? So I also have this app called Max Rewards. And so I can go to a store and it'll say, Hey, use your Chase Sapphire card or use your Amex at the different stores, depending on where it is.
'cause I've let it use my location. So do you use something like that too?
Julian Kheel: I don't, but I do the same thing. I just do it in my head. Because I've been doing this a very long time, so Yeah. But yes, I usually do. And this is the way, 'cause you're, you've got two pieces to the puzzle.
You've got the signup bonuses that we've talked about, and then you've got your actual everyday spend, which you should be putting on some sort of card that earns rewards because why not? So what I usually do is I have. Two or three cards on my per personal cards. Then I have a card or two for my business as well.
And for each of those cards, they has a use. So I have one card that I say this I use for restaurants. Because it earns three points per dollar I spend at restaurants. That's a bonus carry. I use this other card for [00:14:00] grocery stores and then I usually have a catch-all card where if it's a car, where if it's an expense that I don't necessarily have a bonus category.
If that's the card I go for, it's a 2% cashback card or two, two miles per dollar, that sort of thing. Okay. So that's the strategy I have. And again, I, you can ramp it up as much or as little, you can have 20 cards in your wallet or you can have three. But you should definitely have a couple I.
The other thing to keep in mind don't forget about your mobile wallet. If you have an iPhone, you can use Apple Pay. You can load these cards into there and still get the same bonus categories, and then you don't have to carry around 20 cards and you can just select and use what you need.
Michelle Moses: Right?
And I found what's happened to me is that I'm getting confused on what card is what. And so that's why I have needed some of the spreadsheets and the apps and, all of that. And it's I applied for, I mean I think I was just at three and I was like, okay, I don't even know. 'cause I was so used to just having two, one personal, a debit and a business card.
And so then it's like you're opening up all [00:15:00] these cards and you're getting all these bonuses and you're banking all of 'em. But you need to make sure that they can transfer to each other. 'cause usually like the chase can transfer to each other, the Amex can transfer to each other. But. It, then it started to get confusing and that's why I downloaded the Max Rewards app was so that I could keep track of not only the offers and activating them on my card, but then which one was good to use at the grocery store.
But your tactic sounds much better of let me just use this at restaurants and then this one at restaurant or at groceries and stuff like that.
Julian Kheel: Yeah. A low tech way to do it if you don't want to download an app, and by the way, a lot of people are using apps like that and it is a great use of the technology because the like you said, you can say, share my location, and then they know where you're at and which card to use.
But if you're looking for a more low tech way or you just don't wanna, provide that sort of a level of location you can literally take a little piece of masking tape and just put it on your card and write restaurants on this one. And that way when you go to your wallet, it's, I'm at a restaurant, grab that card. Yeah, most people do need some [00:16:00] sort of system and look, even I have a spreadsheet where I have all my open cards and the bonuses and when they were opened and all of that in the annual fees. So I can track it. I can't track 25 cards in my mind. All at once either.
So yeah, you should have some sort of method of organization if you're gonna ramp it up.
Michelle Moses: Okay.
Deciding Whether to Keep or Cancel Credit Cards
Michelle Moses: And then when it comes time for the annual fee, how do you determine whether you should keep it or not?
Julian Kheel: So that's a really good question. 'cause that annual fee is all about what are you getting from the card.
If that card is sitting in your drawer not being used and you're not using any of the perks, it's time to either close that card or convert it to a card that's not, that doesn't have an annual fee. You should not be paying annual fees for cards that you're not actively using. Okay. With that said, let me be clear about something.
When you first open a card and get the signup bonus and you pay that first annual fee. Keep that card open for the first year. Don't close it before the first year that's where banks will get upset with you. If you're opening a card, getting the bonus, and closing it. After four months, you're gonna be on the naughty [00:17:00] list very quickly and you're not gonna get more cards.
Wait at least until that second annual fee hits before you make a decision to close it. And by the way, most banks. We'll give you 30 days after the fee is charged to decide whether to close the card or convert it and get that fee refunded. Okay? So just because you saw it charged already doesn't mean it's too late.
In fact, that's the time to pick up the phone and call them.
Michelle Moses: And so then you can call and say, I want to cancel. And they'll give you, they'll give you that back.
Julian Kheel: Okay. Or convert it to a card with no annual fee. Which can be beneficial for your credit. Yeah.
Maximizing Your Credit Score with Unused Credit
Julian Kheel: 'cause if you have credit and it's unused, you're not carrying debt against it, that actually increases your credit score.
Having more cards does not hurt your score as long as you are using them responsibly and you don't have an excessive amount of debt. Rule of thumb on this is that if. For excellent credit score, you want to have your usage be 10% or less across the board that's across all your cards, and to at least have a decent credit score, you want it to be less than 30%.
Okay? So those are the thresholds that, and again, that's [00:18:00] adding together all of your credit limits across all your open cards and then all of your credit debt across all your open cards. So that's why keeping a card open with no annual fee. It's useful because you've got another credit limit that you're not using, and so that's adding to your ratio.
Right?
Michelle Moses: And this is where it kind of gets, I feel like, also complicated. I've said that a few times, but when I was using my Marriott card and then I started to do this, I didn't want to pay the annual fee for the Marriott, but if I would've canceled, then I would lose my status. With their bonvoy program.
And so this is where you really wanna read what's going on with the credit cards and what are you gonna lose. Because if I would've canceled that, then I wouldn't get the same benefit as when I went to stay. And I still have all these Marriott points. So even if I canceled the card, I'd still have the Marriott points, but I would not be a, it's not Diamond, but I, whatever I am at Marriott I, so I just downgraded it to the free card so that I could keep all those other bonuses.
Yep. Per and perks. That's what I
Julian Kheel: mean. Yep, [00:19:00] exactly. That's what I mean by perks. It's not just about the points, it's about the other features of the card. Are you using them or not?
Strategic Use of Airline Credit Cards
Julian Kheel: For instance, I have a Delta credit card. I think it's a Delta Gold Card. I pay $99 a year for it. It never goes in my wallet because Delta cards are usually not the best place to spend money.
They don't earn enough miles. And also then you're locked into Delta Mile, right? You can't transfer them somewhere
Michelle Moses: else. Correct.
Julian Kheel: But I keep that Delta card sitting in my drawer, paying $99 a year. And you might say why are you doing that if you're not getting anything out of it? And the reason is.
I am getting something outta it. Just by having that card, I am getting a waived baggage check fee every time I fly Delta. That fee is now about 30 bucks each way on a Delta flight, or it might even be 35, which means if I fly Delta twice round trip. That's over a hundred dollars in free in check bag fees.
I've saved. I pay 99 bucks for the card. I've already saved money. So for me, even though I know use that card, it all [00:20:00] gets attached automatically. You don't have to charge it to that card. Yeah. So just by having that card sitting in my drawer, you get free pay $99 a. I'm actually saving money.
That's a
Michelle Moses: genius idea. See? This is what I love about it. Or it's like the Southwest credit card. Did you know that you get two a upgrades and there's just a lot of little things. Or you get some of these cards you'll get TSA pre-check. They'll pay for that. They, you'll get a credit for that.
Yep. Some of them for clear. It just depends on what the card is and there's all these, and if you're really using them like I got a Amex Gold and I'm just getting, I'm out there spending up these restaurants and I get $10 credits all the time, and I'm like, I don't even know why I'm getting, it's like you just activate it.
Yeah, I know which coming card. Yeah. And you just get the $10 credit. So it really does, if I, and I don't even spend that much time on this anymore. It's more like I just. Have a night and I'll spend an hour or two going down the rabbit hole and then I learn a little bit more and, then it kind of builds on itself.
Okay.
Compiling Points for Travel Rewards
Michelle Moses: So let's kind of switch off to, so now we've kind of given a brief overview, I guess, of compiling points and what that looks like from the beginning. And so now you [00:21:00] have these points and I even think after two credit cards, you probably have enough of with the signup bonuses to go take a trip.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Would you agree with that? Even after one, I would, if you get a hundred thousand points. A hundred
Julian Kheel: percent. First of all, it depends on where you want to go and how you want to get there, and are you bringing someone with you. Yes, obviously if you want to go as a couple or with a friend or family member somewhere, to Singapore in first class, then one card's probably not gonna do it.
But you know, if you've got. Say 80,000 chase points, and you want to go spend a couple of nights at an all inclusive resort. Chase has got a bunch of them. You could easily do that together for two people and save on the entire stay. And then just get some cheap flights to get there and back and have everything paid for with all your drinks and food and everything.
Michelle Moses: Yeah. It didn't take that. I was surprised at if your dates are flexible, I think then it's very surprising what you can do for a very little amount of points. And that's. That's the key that
Julian Kheel: you just said. You gotta be [00:22:00] flexible. The, where people run into problems and where they say, ah, this doesn't work, is they're set on a specific flight, on a specific date.
And that flight happens to cost a lot of money or a lot of points rather. Because it's a popular flight, because it's nonstop and it's exactly the right time or whatever. If you can be a little more flexible with your dates and your times, and maybe you make a connection, that's where you can really get massive value.
Spend very few points to get some really great trip.
Michelle Moses: Yeah, I came home for, I went to the Paris Olympics last summer, and I spent 20,000 points to get home. It was just like, that's amazing. Yeah. And that's amazing because I had a flexible date. It just was nothing. I was like, and I was like, this cost me like nothing.
It was, it's insane. It was direct too, from Paris to Phoenix. You can find fantastic. Some really amazing things out there. And so let's talk about what you do, because obviously you have a job and so your extension, so you have a website or a web extension that actually searches [00:23:00] for the flights,
Julian Kheel: yes. My, my company is called Points Path, and what we do is, first of all, we, our whole goal is to make travel tools that help people use their frequent flyer miles. As you've said that it's complicated to earn them, but I. That I think a lot of people can figure out fairly easily once they dig into it, using 'em is where it gets a little more tricky.
Like we talked about, you go on and you find some flight and you're like, ah that's not a good deal. Or, I don't want that flight. And then even when you do find a flight, you say, all right, say it's, 15,000 miles or $120 which is the better deal? Should you be paying cash and save the miles for later or use the miles and every airline's miles.
Are worth a different amount. You can't just say, oh, 15,000 miles is worth 150 bucks. It doesn't work that way. They're all different. So what Points Path does, it's a browser extension that you install any, either Google Chrome or Microsoft Edge, and we have Safari coming out next year. We, and then you take when you do a search in Google Flights, which is a very popular search [00:24:00] engine for flights, you search, Phoenix to Paris or whatever it might be.
Google gives you all the options for that date in cash. Points, path, adds all the points, prices for each of those airlines, and then tells you for each flight. Which you should do, should you use cash? Should you use miles? Is it a good deal with miles or is it a great deal with Miles?
Michelle Moses: And this is a godsend.
It does
Julian Kheel: all of this in about
Michelle Moses: five to seven seconds. Yeah, that is a godsend. It's free. I know that's not,
Julian Kheel: it's free too. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Moses: I, booking this and then figuring out, I got my calculator out figuring out is that a good, exchange versus this one at United. And on this one, the fact that you have this extension.
I am so happy that you invented this, so thank you, because yeah, it's very difficult to figure all that out. It just takes so much time.
Julian Kheel: That's right. And that is exactly why we created Points Path. I, as you mentioned at the beginning I've spent a lot of years in this business. I've worked at the Points guy.
I've worked at CNN writing about travel rewards and credit cards and it's all great [00:25:00] information. Those are great sites. But I always wanted a way to be able to help people use their mouths. Without them having to spend hours digging through a website or a blog points path is the way to say, to answer the simple question, do I use my miles or do I use cash?
Just tell me the answer. I don't wanna dig into all this, just tell me what I should do.
Michelle Moses: Yeah. I think this extension sounds wonderful and I. I cannot wait to use it. And I, because I wanted to talk to you and I, maybe I should have used it before I even talked to you so I could give my experience.
I didn't think about that, but I have had such an issue with figuring out how Yeah. To Is it worth 50 cents? Is this worth a dollar? Yeah. All of that. So this is really a godsend to be able to figure out your flights. And that has always been, 'cause people say you should not, so do you recommend that you go to Google Flights?
Because you always hear, don't go into the, like credit card. Sometimes they'll have good deals, but like going into their, what do you call that? Their portal for travel, their portal. Yeah, so if you go to the Chase [00:26:00] portal to book travel, everyone on these I've joined all these Facebook groups about doing all this travel hacking you guys.
And so that's where I get a lot of my information is listening to everybody ask the questions and things. But then do going, they say don't go into these portals to book. And do you have any comments about that?
Julian Kheel: Yeah. Booking direct usually is the preferred way. You generally aren't gonna get a better deal by going through a portal, though.
Again, if you need to use your points to, on a flight that isn't covered by a transfer partner, then you might have to use the portal, in which case that. It's fine, but you do wanna check the price. In other words, if the flight is available on Chase's portal for $300, you go to Google Flights and look that same flight up on the same date and make sure that the airline is actually charging $300 for it and not two 50.
Okay. Because if it's, if there's a markup on Chase's portal or any of the banks, then it may no longer be worth using the points. Okay. So yeah, you basically, if you do go through a portal, you just want to crosscheck it directly with the airline or hotel. Make sure you're still getting a good deal.
Michelle Moses: [00:27:00] Okay. All right. Are there any other, like tips and tricks you've got about actually using the points? We've got lots of things. I know, but like anything that I'm really missing,
Julian Kheel: Here's one of the things that, yes here's one of the very simple tricks that I always say when it comes to redeeming your points and miles.
And it's going to sound silly, but it's really very very valuable, even though it sounds like it shouldn't make a difference when you are booking flights. Search one way at a time. Don't search for round trips with points. Most people, right when they book a flight, especially with cash, they sit down and they say, all right, I'm coming from Phoenix and I'm going to Paris I need to leave May 16th and I need to come back May 23rd, or whatever it might be.
And they just put that all in and they get the results. Which for cash is usually fine, but with points, because it's so complicated, because there's all these partners and different options and all of that. The airline and bank websites are generally not very good at piecing together the [00:28:00] best round trip options.
So you're better off searching one direction first from your home to wherever you're going with points, and then. The other direction. Homes. Okay. Separately. And even booking them separately, which generally there's no additional fee for that. You generally won't have to spend more points for booking them separately.
It gives you the flexibility to change, right? One side or the other without affecting the other side. And finally, it gives you the opportunity to mix points together. So let's say you've got 15,000 points with United and 15,000 points with or miles with American. That's not quite enough to get a round trip to domestically in either program, but it is enough to go one way on United and the other way.
Oh, okay. So that's the way that you can mix your miles on one trip and use them all
Michelle Moses: and just use different airlines? That's right. Depending on, that's right. Because that might work. Yeah. They might just have a cheaper day or what? Yeah. [00:29:00] You're, so you're really specifically looking for that one day and then you start your search over and then you're searching for that one other one day, correct?
Exactly. Yeah. Regardless of what airline, unless you're, you have those certain points
Julian Kheel: right at that airline. And the reason you're doing that is because unlike cash, every airline's miles are different and you can't otherwise mix and match them. Cash is cash you, whether you're booking American or United or Delta, you're still paying in the same cash, but with miles.
If you're booking on Delta, you gotta use delta miles. If you're looking on American, you gotta use American miles. So the only way to mix them that way short of booking across partners is to do it that way, book it one way in each direction using a different set of miles.
Michelle Moses: Okay.
Advanced Features and Community Support
Michelle Moses: And do you offer any help in helping people book some of these things or support outside of having your extension?
So we, so
Julian Kheel: we only have the extension. We don't have, some sites offer a concierge service. It's usually very expensive, so we don't do that. What we do have is we have a group called the Founder's Club. [00:30:00] It is a paid group. It's not very expensive. It's about a hundred bucks a year. And part of that group, it's a small limited group, and we have we, we have a Facebook group, we have email support and that sort of thing.
And that's where, even if I am not necessarily available to help you. Others will, other members will be able to help. Yeah. And that is, we limit that to only 10% of our installed user base so that it doesn't turn into 40,000 people. But but that is a way that we try and have people help each other when they're looking for advice.
Michelle Moses: And I think that's where you learn a, that's where I've learned a lot anyway, is just reading other people's situations and and then honestly booking your own stuff, but reading other people's situations. That's really where you get into it and it just becomes. I don't know that mine's a part-time hobby like some of these other people I know, but it's, it's kind of a hobby that I get into here and there.
So if you are enjoying
Julian Kheel: doing it
Michelle Moses: then I, and you're
Julian Kheel: getting something out of it, then I'd say it's a hobby. Yeah. It's like hacking the system. That's right. Exactly. I should also mention with Founders' Club, you also get advanced features in the Points Path extension [00:31:00] itself. We have things like price tracking where you can say, Hey, I wanna select this.
Flight in points and let me know by email when the price goes up or down. Oh, cool. Counting points. We have a seven day calendar where when you do a search, you can see the best prices for three days before, three days after, across all of our points programs. So we have advanced features like that in founders club as well as the Facebook group, as well as priority support, email support and such.
Yeah.
Michelle Moses: Oh, that's wonderful. And I think that's the way that you're gonna learn about it, is when you have a group, you have to have that group. You can do it on your own, but you don't even know if you're doing it right or if you're,
Julian Kheel: it helps to have people give you feedback.
Yeah. Say, yeah. And say oh, that's a good idea, but try this, and it might be even better, whatever it might be. And that's how you learn.
Michelle Moses: Yeah. And then, so my last question is, and I haven't done this yet, but this is what on the group is by linking your card. To Raku in or maximizing your shopping more than what we've even talked about of this is my grocery.
This is my restaurant. Do you have any recommendations for that?
Julian Kheel: Yeah, that. No, that's a [00:32:00] really good point is that beyond just using your credit card and flying, there's a million other ways to earn points and miles. Now, one of the things you're mentioning, Rakuten, is a shopping portal. If you're buying anything online from a Walmart or a Target or wherever it might be, you should be looking first at a shopping portal.
There's a bunch of them. The rack in is a cashback portal. You can get Amex points as well, but every airline has. As some sort of a shopping portal. You go through the portal first to that site, you still end up on the same target.com or walmart.com. But anything you buy there during that trip, that shopping trip, you then get additional bonus miles from the shopping portal.
So that's another great way I. To earn extra miles. There's dining portals where you can add your card, like you said, and then when you're out dining, then you get bonus miles, lots and lots of other opportunities. You just have to kind of dig into it all and find them all.
Michelle Moses: Yeah, it's a whole world I hope that.
Final Thoughts and Getting Started with Travel Hacking
Michelle Moses: This helped you you guys just even if you aren't part [00:33:00] of the travel hacking and all the points and everything, that this even gave you a clue of what's going on and how big and exp and just to even get started or some of the websites to get started. I hope it helped you 'cause I find it to be a lot of fun and I'm sure you do too, since you do it for a living.
Julian Kheel: Absolutely. And I wanna emphasize, you don't have to be a travel hacker. You can go from, just knowing nothing about it. So just one or two steps forward it, start there. Yeah. And just get a little value out of it and you'll very quickly just figure out if you're addicted or not.
Michelle Moses: Yeah, just do a a card for six months and then do another one for six months and then you could be done with it and it maybe even get a free trip out of it and see where it goes. Okay. So you are with points path.com. Correct. Yep. Okay. That is correct. And the extension is free. And you have a group that you can join and thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Michelle. If you have any questions, just let me know. I will. And we'll, I'm gonna put all of Julian's information in the show notes if you'd like to get in touch with him. [00:34:00] And thank you so much for listening to The Unconventional Investor, you guys, I really appreciate you listening and have a great day.
Thank you for listening to The Unconventional Investor Podcast. I hope you feel more confident in how you can grow your wealth using the strategies I shared in this episode. If you're ready to take the next step in diversifying your portfolio outside the stock market with alternative investments, head to me financial.net/contact us to book a 15 minute consult call with me.
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