Understanding Crypto's New Role in Our Economy with Andy Woodward
Software engineer & developer, Andy Woodward joins us to give an update on cyptocurrency and it's place in our financial markets.
As someone who's been following the crypto space since 2018, Andy provides a wealth of insights into the world of cryptocurrencies.
Key Takeaways:
Understanding Crypto's Resilience: Andy highlights how, despite the buzz around meme coins, the top cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum have remained relatively consistent over the years. It's crucial to look past the short-term noise and focus on the long-term potential of these digital assets.
Crypto as a Tool for Global Economic Participation: Crypto's role in enabling people from struggling economies to participate in global commerce. Whether it's providing a stable form of currency in inflation-hit regions or simplifying international transactions, crypto offers some unique advantages our current system doesn't have.
Exploring Innovative Crypto Projects: We discuss fascinating projects like liquidity pools and platforms like Poly Market. These developments not only enhance the utility of cryptocurrencies but also offer new ways for individuals to engage with and profit from the crypto marketplace.
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Time Stamps
00:00 Introduction to the Unconventional Investor Podcast
00:27 Revisiting the Crypto Episode with Andy Woodward
00:49 The Evolution and Current State of Crypto
02:27 Crypto as a Long-Term Investment
05:58 Global Economic Impact of Crypto
09:58 Inflation and Asset Comparison
16:53 Bitcoin's Global Influence and Future Outlook
18:40 Global Crypto Adoption and Economic Participation
19:35 Exploring Current Crypto Projects
20:03 Understanding Liquidity Pools
22:58 Risks and Rewards of Liquidity Pools
26:34 Poly Market: Betting and Liquidity Pools
29:24 Future of Crypto Investments
32:06 Personal Experiences and Lessons in Crypto
34:23 Final Thoughts and Advice
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Introduction to the Unconventional Investor Podcast
Welcome to the Unconventional Investor Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Moses, certified financial planner, licensed realtor, and founder of MeFinancial. If you're an accredited investor feeling overwhelmed by managing your portfolio and looking for alternative investment strategies that go beyond the traditional stock market, you're in the right place.
Let's head into today's episode so you can start taking control of your financial future. Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening.
Revisiting the Crypto Episode with Andy Woodward
Today, we are going to revisit our crypto episode that we had almost two years ago. I cannot believe it's been almost two years. It was episode six of the podcast.
Wow. Yes. So I've, we've come along way, Andy. I got Andy Woodward here to talk about it, and he has been on, four times, I think so. A few episodes. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is probably fourth. Fourth time. Yeah. You've been on here.
The Evolution and Current State of Crypto
And Andy is a software developer and he is my friend and he is very into crypto and he understands how payment systems work and we thought it would every timely for him to come back on and give a update on what's going on in the world of crypto.
Because it has surpassed my knowledge for sure. There's a lot going on that. Just takes a lot for, the layman to understand. So I'm excited to hear what you have to say about it. Yeah. Thank you. Glad to be back. I know you and I have been talking about crypto for a long time.
I was digging around in our previous conversations or whatever, and I know we talked like it was way back in 2018 when we first started. Talking about crypto, back in the day when Bitcoin had plummeted to 3,700 hundred dollars I know, and then it stayed at 3,700 for six months. And I have you to thank for even getting me into crypto.
'cause I remember having lunch with you one time and I was like, I gotta buy some of this. Yeah. You did a pretty deep dive on it. Yeah. Yeah, I did. It's very interesting to learn about. And so why do you think it's timely that we are having this conversation now to revisit crypto? I think the more things change, the more they stay the same.
There's, there's a lot of buzz these days on crypto. A lot of it's around meme coins, Pepe Coin Peanut, the Squirrel, they here today, gone tomorrow. But if you actually look at crypto, if you look past a lot of the the noise, the. The main crypto, the top 10 have remained relatively the same.
And it, it all depends on what people are into.
Crypto as a Store of Value and Investment
Some people are traders, they they like to flip crypto, but I tend to be more of an investor where I have an idea the long term prospects, and I use it as a gauge as well as an investment with a longer term horizon. So I look at things a little bit differently.
I don't, generally, I pay attention to what goes on with the meme coins and everything, because those all ride on the, pretty much the top 10 or the top 20cryptos. But if you look back, couple of years, the top 10 have not changed. They move around a little bit. They're Bitcoin, they're still there.
Bitcoin, Ethereum, light coin, all that. Yeah. Yeah. The same ones. Solana is another one. That's been an up and comer, but. They've all re remained relatively constant, but when we look at markets as a whole, we can't really look at 'em in a, as in a vacuum. Over the last couple years, a lot of, there's been a lot of turmoil from an economic standpoint.
The stock market's done great, gold has done great. The the dollar. Continues to be really robust. So what I thought we could do is really talk about where is crypto and how does it relate to some of these things? Do a health check, yes.
What is uhs? Where is crypto? I think that's, yeah. I think it's a great thing to do because there's two camps. People that believe in it, and the people that think it's a scam. Yeah. Because of people getting ripped off. And so obviously then the media kind of clamors onto these things of where people are getting ripped off, even though we know tons of people get ripped off with our regular banking system all the time.
There's always bad actors everywhere. And so I know that there's, just two different camps. And so yes, I'm interested to hear what you've got to say. Do you wanna talk about the two different camps of people? Do you have any opinions about that? We might be talking about different camps.
I think there's probably more than two camps, but the let me know what you're thinking. As far as the two camps. No, just the camps are the people that think that it's it's a scam. They think it's made up. It's a total scam. It would never, it's a Ponzi scheme, that you hear all that kind of stuff.
And then there's the people that are all about it and believe in it as a long term solution. And some of people think that we should, get rid of our dollars, our fiat currency, and, go to crypto because it's, quote unquote more secure. So I would love to hear what, just, you're probably just more of a middle of the road guy.
If I had to guess, it's I'm not a, I'm not one who's into absolutes on anything, and and initially to, if you're unfamiliar with crypto, it's a hard thing to wrap your head around. The people that are. Anti crypto are saying you're just buying bits. It's nothing. Yeah.
But stocks is nothing. You're futures are nothing. Your options are nothing. It's all these financial tools that we have literally made up outta thin air. We ascribe value and belief to, I. Many different things. Like the state we live in is an idea. Exactly. It's not an actual thing.
We don't fly over the country and go Oh, the, it's not like the cartoons. We seethe borders of the country and the state. Yeah. But then even in your financial, everything, we've made up insurance, we've made up, we make up all of these things and then we invest in them.
That is our entire financial world, if you think about it. And this product isn't any different, oftentimes it, I think it's more of a store of value than a currency. I think if we start looking at it as, a tradable item, you actually need to look at who takes it. Can you go into Safeway and buy your groceries with Bitcoin?
No. But is it a store of value? Is it one of those things that appears on stock market or financial news as. Having a particular value.
Global Economic Impact and Crypto Adoption
Yes, it is, and I could see how it would be a great store of value if you are an international traveler, if you have international family, that sort of thing.
It makes your banking that much easier if you can convert into a coin. Send that over a wallet anywhere in the world, and obviously then exchange it for whatever currency that you have. Or even bigger picture, there's a lot of broken economies right now. Whether it's Venezuela or Argentina or Turkey or Lebanon or Ukraine.
There, those are economies that have people that are willing to work, but are dealing with broken, closed economies. Cryptocurrency allows people in those economies to still participate. So I, as a software developer, I still do business in some of these areas where I am able to engage with developers and they're grateful for the work because they're being able to be paid in a hard currency versus.
A currency that's subjected to the whims of a dictator or extreme inflation. And so they're happy to work for Bitcoin or whatever you end up paying them in. Yeah, absolutely. And it's it, but it also allows us to reach a particular market that would be difficult for me to go, alright, I need to actually convert this to, Argentinian dollars.
Yeah. Or something to that effect where I can just go, do you accept bitcoin? And we come up with an agreement and off we go. Yeah. Makes it a lot easier. So I think there's a lot of opportunities from an economic participation standpoint, and that's been a thesis that I've had for a long time. And you're saying worldwide.
Economic participation. Yeah. And for that it totally makes sense. And then you go, but then what about the bad actors? Or, things like that as just a normal person, with our media and that's what you tend to go to. So it's cool that you're able to do that. But then am I gonna be traveling somewhere that I would wanna use Bitcoin and then I'm not, privy.
I know that you use all these secure. Ways of doing all of your phone numbers and emails and all of that, but not everybody does that. And so I just think if I would be somewhere, would I have accidentally get ripped off just because I don't know the system that well, you're just as likely to though to be pickpocketed in a exactly.
As in a transit area or something to that effect. I, there certainly Bitcoin doesn't obviate the need for being aware of your surroundings and what's going on, and it actually adds it from a digital standpoint being, keeping your password secure and actually looking, is this email valid or there's stuff going on right now where people are, you wouldn't think we're being caught by that.
Are being caught up in malware or something. Just because they clicked on the wrong thing. So that's another layer that people need. Overall personal cybersecurity, aware anything of what they're doing. Just for anything. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause that's probably what you hear about more than anything when it comes to crypto is, you're gonna get ripped off and you hear of people losing their ATM pin or their credit card or their bank account, but it's just because we're used to that. Now it's more that it, this is news because it's new and we don't know about it. And so then when you don't know about things, you tend to think bad things. But it is new, but it isn't, it is new related to the overall, like writing checks, using credit cards and things like that.
So crypto has only been on the scene for less than 20 years. But. It's also been around for a number of years, so it's actually really tried and true, and it's a multi-trillion dollar prize for somebody to knock it down. The crypto market's over $2 trillion at this point, and largely concentrated in a handful of cryptos.
It's, that's a big, tasty prize for hackers, and they have not been able to break it. Especially the grand granddaddy that you talk about, which is Bitcoin has been around a good, long time. And they're not fiddling with it. And so far it's stood the test of time. Which needs to give it some prop, some credit for that.
Okay. So what I wanted to talk about related to that also is let's you know when it I'm a big believer in the saying from a financial standpoint, when in doubt, zoom out. 'Cause if you're looking at what's going on right now, as we tend to do, it's ooh, crypto's down 10% in the last week, or something to that effect, and you focus in on that one particular thing.
And so it's ooh, is this really a long-term prospect where again, you and I have been talking about crypto for a really long time. If you actually back out and the ideal number I pulled up is five years. It's pretty easy to pull together chart related to five years. And it's astounding when we talk about just how crypto has done in the United States over the last five years.
'cause if we look at the last five years, that's the entirety of. COVI, all the way through it. The ups and downs in there. The economic turmoil. The political turmoil to get to the point that we are right now. So that's a lot of ups and down sand the trend overall has been up. So if we actually just look at the US stock market, just as a comparison, 'cause you know you gotta have like for the s and p 500 is up about a hundred percent over the last five years. So if you had start, stayed through the market in COVID, you would've doubled your money. But in the same timeframe Bitcoin is up 896% where gold is up 76%.So Goldstone pretty well, but it hasn't beat the the market. We really can't do that.
Or Ethereum at the same time is up. 950%. So they've all done pretty well. If you zoom out and look at the bigger picture and kind of ignore some of the fud, it's actually been a really good long-term holding through a lot of turmoil. And I think when you own it and you follow it, that's what, that is what cracks me up.
Because you'll see, Bitcoin took a dive today. And then I'm like, oh, it's at $90,000. And oh, what are you even talking about? That would be, it took a dive, would be going back to $30,000 or Right. Again, somewhere around in there. I'm like, this is nothing, I'm not worried about this at all.
Yeah. And five years ago it was about $16,000. Yeah, pretty significant increase. But when we look at things from an inflation standpoint, when we talk about people in economies that are disadvantaged, that are broken, it's worth doing a comparison. And I've pulled together an extreme example.
One of the economies is Turkey, it's a relatively. Modern economy. They're modern banking part, they're in nato, they participate in global commerce. Their, our peak inflation in 2022 where our inflation peaked over the last five years was 9%, peaked at 85%.
Significant difference. Let's back into some other numbers. Their stock market over the last five years is up 700%. Pretty nice. So if people were in the market, they at least would've close to have kept pace with that ramp in inflation. But at the same time, Bitcoin in Turkish lira is up 5743%.
Yeah. So what you're pointing out is that basically it all goes up together. Yeah. That there's ways to, hit your wagon to a star or the tide floats all boats.
Inflation, Real Estate, and Asset Diversity
But it also is a useful tool to actually just go, I. Let's extrapolate out interest rates or inflation or go, how does inflation relate to real estate?
How does inflation, 'cause we all typically think about what does it mean at the gas pump, or what does it mean related to food? We don't think about. What does it relate to us and other economies?Because if you had just stayed in Turkish lira in that timeframe, five years ago, a US dollar would've gotten you six Turkish lira.
Now it would get you 36. So if you were in currency in that timeframe, you would've be taking an 84% loss. So it's useful just for a comparison to go, alright. If I compare and, the U US has been relatively stable, but as they talk about inflation, you gotta actually just go, what's done well.
In an extreme example, and. Bitcoin has done well. Gold by comparison is up 933% in well, and if you look at the real estate market too, if you're in the real estate market, so basically what we're talking about is if you own the assets. During inflationary periods. Exactly. Then you're gonna make money.
Yeah. So one of the, one of the lessons here is, in when facing inflation is probably don't get outta the market of some sort. Having asset diversity is still very important in times of inflation. In a lot of ways. It's more important, there's gonna be a lot more oscillations and volatility as there is right now in the markets.
But overall, again, if you. When in doubt, zoom out. If you start looking at the bigger picture, holding onto assets like real estate's done over the same time period has done extremely well. And. I think when you do zoom out, then you see the ups and downs. You just see the ups and downs of everything.
And I can speak to the real estate market of just how it's basically going sideways. It's not doing anything right now. Yeah. 'cause you're waiting, you're just waiting for people's for their income to come up to be able to afford things, so yeah. It's and things don't move in a straight line.
Yeah. They don't move in a straight line. And so you can look at all the graphs and see the line going through it. And then the real line going around that straight line that's going up. Yeah. And but like real estate and Bitcoin is similar, is that if you need the money shorter term and can't ride out the ups and downs, do the zoom out and actually just go, alright, I have a longer term horizon on it.
If you're gonna get freaked out, maybe don't put. It's measure your risk. It's put in the amount that you think is appropriate, that you're willing to ride out the ups and downs in order to make the long-term picture actually come to fruition. Exactly.
Yeah. And I think anybody that's read any financial books, it's always better to buy the assets and hold 'em and, it's just like stocks just take all the risk and yeah. That's the way to make the most money. That's a really interesting way to look at it of comparing all of the.
With Turkey and Yeah. Since a lot of my work is international and my business partner, he's international and he's done just keeping his money in the us. He waits until the very last minute, until he needs money elsewhere in order to pull money out just because it's worked really well.
It also forces us to actually look at things from a global macro standpoint. And I think it's something that we need to consider in an asset that moves with other assets. Or it can be a hedge. And that's the part of the point here is Bitcoin's been a fantastic hedge against inflation rates.
Exactly. And some of these economies.
Bitcoin and Ethereum: Global vs. Domestic Influence
So do you think Bitcoin is mainly US based, like a lot of the movement of it is us or is it really a global coin or, I would, I wanna say Bitcoin and Ethereum, let's put, since those are the two biggest ones I really do think those are more global. There's, other cryptos like XRP, which seems to be very domestic.
There are ones, Solana is a lot more centralized. But it's been doing very well. But the ones that are true, like Bitcoin being the the grandparent of all of these is truly global. It shifts based upon. China every few years boots out all the Bitcoin miners or makes it illegal, and then it slowly creeps back in there.
So based upon political whims of whoever the leadership is, it does shift. But it is, but the top ones in particular are definitely global economies. So there, it's not that they're us influenced. I'm sure there's some influence, but yeah. Like our stock market is US influenced versus if we were to go through a recession and people were needing to pull their money out to spend their money and that makes the stock market go down more.
You don't think that's the same thing that would happen with Bitcoin or Ethereum because it's worldwide. It is. But yeah, you also do need to look at concentration risk. The the US dollar, even though it's globally recognized and used for trading of oil and commodities, is still one of those things that there's concentration risk because it is largely held by the us.
So I haven't actually pulled what the breakdown is, but I would bet the. A significant amount of the holders of Bitcoin are US based just by the nature of the size of the economy. And it's probably relatively, I would, again, I'm assuming, but based upon things that I see, I would assume it's relatively.
Distributed based upon economic participation.
Emerging Economies and Crypto Adoption
And the ni the encouraging thing is some of the economies that are on the low side, the developing economies seem to want, view it as an opportunity to actually participate globally. I. So they're looking at things in favor of crypto over, over something like the US dollar, or including it in a basket of currencies.
So they're not sharing that concentrated risk. They can diversify a little bit. Yeah. And I could see if you were in one of those countries, if you had a an unstable, economy or our currency wanting to be and participate with us of having these stable. 'cause I don't think we realize how lucky we are.
And having a stable currency and just a stable economy. Since 2008 really, it's been pretty stable. And yeah, they're wanting to participate. So I love your viewpoint on it and that it get how much it gives them opportunities. Yeah. Okay.
Introduction to Liquidity Pools
So let's shift a little bit that I know you wanted to talk about a couple of the projects that are going on in crypto right now.
And some of these have been going on for a while. I, I saw a, a talk recently. It was actually somewhat of an AI financial related to talk, which we've talked about in the past. And one of the things that he was talking about and the guy's name is Tom Soff. He was the original founder of Think or Swim, and now he runs tasty Works is his latest one interesting guy.
Terrible at naming products, but, but one of the things he was talking about is liquidity pools, being able to take two sides of a market and you actually take the fee. So there are continual swings from US dollars to Ethereum or Bitcoin or between Bitcoin. And Ethereum. So what it allows you to do in liquidity pools is take both sides of that particular market and keep one person.
Take the both sides. Yeah. Okay.
How Liquidity Pools Work
So you put in an equal amount by dollar value of Ethereum and Bitcoin. For example. And then you keep the fees as people go back and forth. There are risks, there's a, like I've been in, in the product that does this, so the system is called Unis Swap.
It runs on Ethereum, but it allows you to actually be a little bit of a market maker on, and then actually potentially make money on the fees going back and forth. I've been in the Ethereum Bitcoin pair. For probably about four years. So what do you do? Do you stake it there or something? Or what are you doing there?
Somewhat. What you have to have is both tokens in your wallet. And this is probably a little bit of a technical explanation, but it's something that people can dive into or we can talk about another time. But basically you have to have an equal amount by dollar value and then you stake it, if you will, in this liquidity pool where.
You have a transaction that then is it's almost your own currency, if you will. Okay. They actually use NFTs to do this. I know that's a bad word, right? But it's a neat use of it. And then you can see on a real time basis how much you're collecting in fees. And then also what there is in the way of slippage, because sometimes.
Bitcoin's really popular, so people will be moving out of bit out of Ethereum and buying more Bitcoin. But then I've noticed over the last four years, it's, it swings back and forth. So sometimes I have more Bitcoin, sometimes I have more Ethereum, but either way, I'm winding up, collecting about. Not including the appreciation in the assets about seven or 8% per year just in fees in this currency, period.
So I'm not understanding why you're getting a fee. So you're basically giving unis swap. Not giving them, but you're like loaning them and putting it on their platform. It's your crypto, like a, it's kinda if you when you travel internationally and you go to one of those exchange places and you convert your US dollars to British pounds or euros or something to that effect.
Take a look at the fees that they actually charge, right? If some of them are charging upwards of three, four, 5% in order to do those currency conversions. So this is the same thing, okay?
So you having a little bit of Ethereum and a little bit of Bitcoin that you put up on this, you get the currency conversion fee, okay? So what Sona was talking about is the potential for these pools to exist in, let's say you own a lot of Disney stock, so the conversion of Disney stock to cash and back and forth, being able to eventually, I. Provide these liquidity pools in a variety of different things. But would Bitcoin or Ethereum ever not have a liquidity?
Would they ever have a liquidity problem? Potentially. Really? Yeah. Okay. Like anything, like if something happened. And this is where the risk is. If something happened that really discredited Bitcoin then, and everybody was trying to get out, everybody was trying to get out, then the next thing you know, you wind up with a lot of Bitcoin and not a lot of Ethereum.
Okay. Or if you're doing US dollars to Ethereum. So you're providing an equal amount of both, and Ethereum is really blowing up. Like it's become really popular, and this actually happened to me when I was experimenting with this. It's like then you lost a lot up. So instead, all of my Ethereum got converted to cash.
I'm not sad about it, but it's one of those things that there is what's called, liquidity risk or impermanent loss that eventually becomes permanent. I lost out on Ethereum going that much higher because I was in a liquidity pool and it converted to cash and it converted to cash.
Okay, now that I understand that, I understand a little bit better. So to me, it reminds me of options. Calls and puts and you're putting yourself out there Yeah. To provide the liquid liquidity of I have these coins if you were going to need them. Yeah. And in a stable market, you're just making the fees.
Much like selling an option. Yeah. The term that comes up a lot and stocks is market makers. Yeah. In order for you to be able to trade. Your stock very quickly. You wanna get rid of it. There are market makers behind the scenes that are pulling the levers, like using options. And things like that, that are able to immediately just give you cash for it, even though they don't have a particular market for it, and vice versa. So usually your big central brokerage firms are in a lot of ways, the market makers. They're the market. Yeah. So what this allows you to do is participate in market making.
So there's, it's cool. It's a neat thing. It's still, even though these have been around for a few years, it's still one of those things that it's just an interesting idea to explore. It's just fascinating, the potential, and I remember exploring it a couple years ago and thinking, this is so over my head.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do anything with this. I'm one of those that I need to start putting money into it. Watching it. Yeah. In order to understand it. It in order to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, it sounds cool because I think that's what is. Neat about crypto just in general is that instead of, because all market makers are these large banks, right?
We could, we all know them and there's no way we're getting in on that. But with crypto we can get in Yeah. On being a market maker. And it's the same thing about it, opening up economies and and not being a fiat currency that is manipulated and it's, it's on a, on everybody's computer.
For that reason, I do think that it is. Very it gives me a lot of hope, yeah. To allow the people to participate in not just these large, conglomerates. Yeah. And it goes to show then it, that it's more than just stick your money in there and you get this particular number.
And there's value on it. There's other things that are going on behind the scenes that provide a lot more utility than just the particular store of value. And it's just neat to see. Okay.
Exploring Poly Market
So what is this other one, the project that you're interested in? The poly market? Poly market is another liquidity pool, but it's essentially gambling or betting.
But what's interesting about it is that people can put up. Anything as far as a particular market and it's being used heavily right now from an interesting standpoint for politics. So poly market pretty much predicted, like it or not predicted to last election. So I find myself, but there are people that are choosing one side or the other and.
They actually get to propose what it is. Our, there was a lot of movement back and forth on the recent German elections or so. Whatever people are willing to take a side on, they can provide the liquidity pool on it and it. It's interesting to watch it move back and forth. And so I understand how you're, so you're saying that not only are you, can you bet on who's gonna win or lose or however something's gonna turn out.
And I know we've all heard about this because sometimes it's even on the news. And, but you're saying that people can provide a liquidity pool. For that also. Okay. So it's a two-sided market. So in any one thing it's a yes, no thing is it this person going to win? Yes or no? Or, choose from the particular ones and then it's a percentage adding up to a hundred percent.
So if the one you actually wanna put money on is 30%. Then there's a potential to make 70% back if that actually works out that way. I don't know that I'm doing the explanation justice. It's just one of those things that like I check in on it like every couple of days just 'cause I'm curious to see. I. What's at the forefront that people are actually willing to put money on?
Like I've I've got a lot of British friends, my father was British. They bet on everything like royal. They used to bet on the gender of royal babies. And the name that they chose and things. It's like the head of lettuce. Yeah, it is. Who they are. Yeah. So it's funny to see though, but it's, it also gives me an awareness of maybe I have some blind spots because it's not only is this is the thing, but it's something that people are willing to put money on and take a side on.
So it's just, I just identify it as a potential, let's keep an eye on the future because this could be a thing where things are going okay. And it's just another fascinating use of. Because it's all on crypto. And it's another fascinating use of these crypto, of what can be used for networks.
Yeah. So again, there are more than a just a store of value. I'm not saying people go out and go gambling, but you're just saying that this is something that's coming out, something new. That has come from it. And it, and that's how we all learn about investments in markets, is first you gotta watch 'em.
And dabble. Yeah. Dabbling in it and understanding the logistics of it. Okay, so let's wrap this up because I want to know your opinion because I did start it out with the, there are the yes and no people on crypto. Do you see, because when you log to any finance website, you see now Bitcoin as something that's listed next to the s and p 500 and next to some of the indexes. Do you see it just. Continuing that way. Yeah. That it is just gonna be like gold I think. So it's gonna be an a another asset that we can invest in, which I think is needed because there, not as many companies are going public and so it's not like our stock market has been growing at the pace of our wealth.
And we, and the real estate market is seeming to be I wouldn't say tapped out, but there's a lot of real estate investors sure. Compared to 20 years ago. And so to me, I. I am glad that we have this other outlet because we have all of this wealth that's growing and growing, and we're going to continue to need new financial tools in order to make money so that people can be diversified and they're not just invested in, one or two things.
Yeah, absolutely. And there are a lot of ways to invest in Bitcoin if you're not there's everything from, the centralized exchanges like Coinbase, for example, to, they're traded on the futures market. So you can, if you're into futures, you can actually trade Bitcoin futures, there's ETFs for it.
So these are so big and well established as far as institutional players go, that there are a lot of vehicles to actually use to invest in it. If you Yeah. If you're in concerned about direct investment, yeah. And then so do you see it going anywhere else? Are is there anything else that I didn't cover that you see it, where, a place that you see it going?
No, I think I think we covered it. It's just it's interesting that it's a recap a couple years later. The more things change, the more they stay the same, the top players at the same that they were a couple of years ago. And there should be some comfort in that. I, but it also gives us something to watch.
Is Solana's approaching the top. It's a crypto to watch. It's in the top five. Is there gonna be a Solana ETF? Is there gonna now be three in the top three that we're gonna be talking about on a regular basis? You mentioned Litecoin. If you go on CNBC, Litecoin still shows up and it makes me laugh 'cause the light Litecoin, nobody talks about it.
No, but it's still there. It's still in the top 10. Yeah, I get updates on Coinbase all the time on my phone, and I'm like, I don't even know what this one, this one's a mover. I'm like, I have no idea which one this is. Yeah. It's just a, it's hard to keep track of all of them. It's just pick a few and watch those.
The me, the meme coins are the ones that get me. 'cause people ask me all the time, should I invest in Pepe? And I'm like, that's not an investment. That's. Speculation. There's a difference. This is something fun, speculation. Yeah. Yeah.
Lessons from Crypto Platform Failures
And I do have to share with you all about my experience with, so I got, I had.
Four or five different crypto accounts by at one point in time a couple years ago because I was testing out all the different platforms, and so I had a Coinbase account, I had a block fi account. I'm not gonna remember all of 'em.
Binance. And then FTX happened. And block fi got hit really bad and I had about a lot of my Bitcoin that I had bought at $6,000.
Yeah. In there. So I don't even know how much I've tried to add it up, but you just don't know because I did get some back with the bankruptcy. And it's just all a lesson that I would go with. If you're going to be testing out different platforms, don't do with as much money as what I was doing it with and possibly, I like Coinbase a lot because it has all the banking.
Safeguards. Yeah. With it. And I wouldn't just put it on any platform willy-nilly. And Coinbase is publicly traded, so they have disclosure requirements. Exactly. Same thing with Robinhood and PayPal. They have, you can trade crypto on those. And they're all, they all have financial disclosures ,which kind of helps, and they have regulatory oversight.
And that's what I, that's what I'm saying. They have the regulatory oversight and then they also have the banking reserves and and so they were the, one of the ones that didn't. Get really caught up in, I would love to say I've had a, I've been in crypto since 2014 and I would love to say I've had a perfect timeline, but I haven't.
I've gotten caught up on in some of the same things, but that's one of the reasons why you diversify. Yeah. You hope that they all work out, but. Yeah, in the end it has worked out. Obviously I have made money, but who knows how many, honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars that I probably lost in that just because I bought Bitcoin at, $6,000.
And so I just use it as a lesson to. Just be careful of the companies that you're investing in because it is new. It's not like you're gonna be with Wells Fargo and these other institutions that have a lot of safeguards. And I know that we love to complain about how hard it is to open an account and how, we, they need their driver's license and there is a reason for all of that and it's so that you don't get ripped off.
And so I've just become way more thankful for our banking system over the last 10 years. Likewise. I agree. Yeah.
Final Thoughts and Advice
But that's a, for the same reason as why, if you're not sure, look at the top 10 and then if you wanna speculate a little bit, maybe the top 20. But if you're not sure, don't go below that 20th.
No, don't. This is a new thing that somebody's coming out with and you just don't know how. Things are buried and it makes me think of the oil and gas industry. You'll hear me talk a lot about this. It's just so convoluted and complicated that you're not ever going to be able to do the research to figure out if it's on the up and up.
Just because it is so complicated. So anyway is there anything else that you wanna add? No, I think that Okay. I think that's, I think that's a good summary. I really appreciate you being on, I always, I've had a couple people call me or email me after listening to a couple of your podcasts that you've been on and they're like, I just like this Andy guy.
I just almost want go have lunch with him. He really knows his stuff, so it's really funny that they don't know you, but they feel like they know you now. Oh, that's awesome. I'm flattered. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for being on it. Of course. I always enjoy this. Yeah, it's always so much fun. Yeah, it's fun. And you guys, thank you so much for listening and let me know if you have any feedback or other topics that you want to hear.
I appreciate you guys all tuning in. Have a great day. Thank you for listening to The Unconventional Investor Podcast. I hope you feel more confident in how you can grow your wealth using the strategies I shared in this episode. If you're ready to take the next step in diversifying your portfolio outside the stock market with alternative investments, head to mefinancial.net/contactus to book a 15 minute consult call with me.[00:36:00]
Let's discuss how we can work together to achieve your financial goals. Until then, I'll see you on the next episode.
Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and should not be construed as professional financial advice. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor or professional before making any financial decisions. The hosts and guests of this podcast are not responsible for any actions taken based on the information presented.